Don't Be Tricked Into Buying A Former Rental Car - The Podcast

"SteveLehto" (stevelehto) 04/14/2016 at 09:00 • Filed to: None

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Next time you’re beating on a rental car, ponder how the car might end up on a used car lot someday. Will the next owner be told it was a rental? Hard to say, but a surprisingly large number of people buy former rentals without knowing it. And the law makes that even more likely.

In fact, in Michigan, car dealers can call former rental vehicles “program cars,” a law they got passed so they could legally mislead people who were car shopping. I’ve always wondered what a car seller would be told if they asked which “program” the car had been a part of. The “drug-running program in Miami,” or the “abused by every driver at Detroit Metro Airport program”?

This is becoming a little less common with Carfax etc but we know that these services sometimes miss things. And a sharp shopper should inspect the previous title before the final handshake. It’s just that some people somehow miss these things. And with most of the things I’ve talked about here, it is better to avoid this situation than to try and fix it later after you have made the mistake.

Here is the audio:

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And the video:

And the truck at the top is not a rental as far as I know. I just saw it by the side of the road and thought it looked nice.

Follow me on Twitter: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Hear my podcast on iTunes: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Steve Lehto has been practicing law for 24 years, almost exclusively in consumer protection and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! He wrote !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

This website may supply general information about the law but it is for informational purposes only. This does not create an attorney-client relationship and is not meant to constitute legal advice, so the good news is we’re not billing you by the hour for reading this. The bad news is that you shouldn’t act upon any of the information without consulting a qualified professional attorney who will, probably, bill you by the hour.

MotorcycleRider > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 09:08

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Am I the only one who doesn’t get the big deal with buying an old rental car? The rental companies have an incentive to maintain the things. Has anyone here ever had a rental break down on them?

SteveLehto > MotorcycleRider 04/14/2016 at 09:14

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Yes. You are in a minority.

I’ve heard of rentals breaking down. I’ve also talked to guys in the industry and they will tell you that when it comes to maintenance or renting to a paying customer, the maintenance goes by the wayside.

And most people treat rentals like crap. If you don’t, again, you are in the minority.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 09:17

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And the truck at the top is not a rental as far as I know.

So, what you’re saying is that rustpile ‘42-’47 Ford pickup rentals are not a thing. Why.

SteveLehto > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 04/14/2016 at 09:20

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You know, it is an intriguing idea. “Rent a Rust Bucket.”

I’m going to go crowdfund that now.

XJDano > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 09:21

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Is it true that manufacturers warranty is void if car goes to a rental company or purchased as a fleet vehicle ?

For some reason I have that in my head since rental agencies and corporations would have some sort of fleet Maintence program.

Although just last week I was driving a rental truck for work and it broke down, the company to come get the truck was:

Road SVC

Event Ref# 3496 Vendor is FORD WARRANTY ROADSI: ETA is 11hrs”

Mind you this was at 8pm.

SteveLehto > XJDano 04/14/2016 at 09:23

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I have never heard of that but it may be different with trucks.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 09:25

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I was thinking limit the year range. 40-54 Ford Freight .

jimz > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 09:27

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the bit about lobbyists reminds me of the scene with Rudolph Hoss in Schindler’s List.

“ I do not say I am accepting them. All I say is that I am not comfortable with them on the table.”

David E. Davis > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 09:27

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That explains why I see Chevy Captivas everywhere now. It’s like people want to buy a 2008 Saturn Vue.

XJDano > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 09:36

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Thanks.

Wil Haginen > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 09:36

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What lobbyists throwing money at politicians might look like:

SteveLehto > Wil Haginen 04/14/2016 at 09:39

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I believe that is EXACTLY what it looks like!

99GTS > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 09:40

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Or do your homework and have some serious bargaining power. Did that on the wife's Murano that was a rental.

SteveLehto > 99GTS 04/14/2016 at 09:43

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Which is specifically something I say in the podcast. (Not about your wife’s Murano specifically. I just found out about that now. But about the notion that you can do this so long as you know what you are getting yourself into and act appropriately.)

450X_FTW > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 09:44

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Reminds me of an old Jeff Foxworthy joke.

“Buying a used rental car is like going to a brothel to find a wife. Anything that has been driven that hard, by that many people, you really don’t wanna put your key in it”

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > XJDano 04/14/2016 at 09:44

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Medium and heavy duty trucks have a very very different warranties than street cars. Whether it’s a rental or not. warranties usually look like they have outrageous lengths (half a million miles!!) but it’s on stuff like ‘engine internals’ or ‘differential’ (but not the axles).

Those things just don’t break in the modern era. The stuff that does break, oil pumps, fuel injectors, axles, defroster fans, window lifts, those things are covered for pitifully short times. There really isn’t a bumper to bumper like in cars.

j250ex > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 09:44

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The crazy thing is they often aren’t cheaper than non rental cars. There is a big enterprise car store close to where I work. They have a bunch of late model trucks. Stopped in to take a look and I was surprised to see the prices they were asking. The only reason I would ever buy a used rental car would be if it was cheaper than everything thing else. Enterprise seems to be taking the opposite approach.

Ryan Stewart > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 09:45

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Ok, for everyone wanting to argue with Steve and talk about how rental companies maintain them, whatever. Ill give a counter-point to that.

Me. I consulted for 4 years. 2 million air miles, more cities than I can remember. And, well, more rentals than I can remember. They all were like 2 years old and had no miles, so its not like rental companies were keeping them a long time to care about maintenance. Also, again, me. Not my car, not my gas. I would bet that every single rental I had hit WOT more than once. They always got the crappy little engines in them so they had no power. I would push the pedal through the carpet getting on the highway. I didn’t go around massive potholes and hit speedbumps at speed (they are actually smoother the faster you go). Coffee made it into the consoles, air vents, whatever. Windows left down.

If you see a car with an ownership history of Hertz or Avis from 2008 to 2012 just walk away, there is too much of a chance that I might have driven that car at some point.

west-coaster > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 09:45

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The late TV car huckster Cal Worthington once got in trouble with the California DMV for not disclosing in his commercials that most of his used cars were former rentals.

After a huge fine (and the ensuing bad publicity), there was then an on-screen disclaimer “Prior Daily Rental” on each car that had been in a rental fleet. And even after all that, it ended up that most of the cars for sale had the disclaimer.

SteveLehto > Ryan Stewart 04/14/2016 at 09:46

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I concur with all except the “walk away.” I would suggest running.

ChrisinKY > Ryan Stewart 04/14/2016 at 09:50

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Just had a rental myself, nicely equipped dodge charger. It was overdue for an oil change per the sticker when I picked it up (their last sedan on site). I threw another 3500 miles on it in about 2 weeks.... So it’s way over due now...

VoltRon > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 09:50

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So I bought a Suburban that spent 1 year as a livery car. Any thoughts on that? It’s been great for the almost 3 years we’ve owned it.

DerpyDawg > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 09:52

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I had a 2014 Civic Si that had been listed as a “fleet vehicle” in the Carfax and had 30K+ miles on it after a year. Could not have been a rental though, manual transmission. So what about "fleet vehicles," does that just mean it was owned by a business?

Declan Hackett > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 09:53

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At least you know the transmission has been tested for stress factors!

ChrisinKY > MotorcycleRider 04/14/2016 at 09:53

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The problem is they unload them typically by 20k miles or so. How much maintenance is there really? Oil changes is all they are doing, when they can, and in the mean time they are getting rode hard by everyone and anyone that gets their hands on the keys... If you could buy identical used cars, both that had all factory maintenance performed on schedule from an older guy that drove it to church and his family’s house, or from a 16yr old who’s dad bought it as his first car and he’s a “speed racer” type which would you buy? Sure it’s had factory maintenance done, but the 16yr olds clutch, brakes and tires are probably more heavily worn than the older gents....

Burning River all stars > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 09:54

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In Ohio, you have to sign a disclaimer notifying you that you know you’re buying a “fleet vehicle”. I got to that part of buying a car, and slammed on the brakes. The sales guy said “well that could be anything, etc.” I said specifically that I wanted to know whether it was Avis or a Chevy corporate car, and he just shrugged and said he didn’t know. I then specified I’d only buy a car that I didn’t have to sign the fleet vehicle disclaimer for, and he couldn’t find one that I was interested in. This was also at a very large Chevy dealership near Cleveland, so I really have no idea what that could mean.

“Fleet vehicle” to me conjurs images of people standing on the gas pedal and jumping curbs in a rental car.

icanneverremembermyburnercode > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 09:54

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I was at a Toyota dealership last year looking for a used car that was only one or two years old. As I was going through them with the salesman, I was curious about the price of one that was two grand less than the others with comparable specs but slightly higher mileage. Popped my head into it and then immediately said, “Oh that makes sense now, no thanks.”

Salesman: What’s wrong with this one? Don’t like the interior?

Me: No the interior’s fine but it was a rental and there’s no way I’m buying a former rental.

Salesman: Looks down at his sheets. No this wasn’t a rental, why do you think that?

Me: That big no smoking sticker still on the dash is a dead giveaway. Let’s go look at the back and see if we can find paint discoloration in the form of a rental logo.

We proceed to look and sure enough there's the faintest E logo on the left rear.

Declan Hackett > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 09:55

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But with ivory back-scratchers…

SteveLehto > VoltRon 04/14/2016 at 09:55

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Did you know that when you bought it? Did you get a price break?

ohnoitsericgo > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 09:56

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Let me start off by saying I love listening to these podcasts while I chug away at my desk! Anyway, I can attest to this. As a kid who had a summer “internship” renting out cars, I would see these cars get abused by not only the renters but also employees. Over revving, neutral drops, shifting into park before the car stops moving, anything to get the car to the “client” faster after it came out of the car wash. Since these cars were nobody’s cars, per se, nobody cared to take care of them.

And that’s just how the cars were driven. “Maintenance” was a word that did not exist in the branch managers book. Sure, when the service minder came on, the cars would go to the 5 minute lighting lube place down the block, but other than that these cars would go in for inspection and pass with flying colors even with bald tires and bad brakes. Again, any downtime the cars had while in the shop wasn’t making the branch managers sales numbers look good. At the expense of safety, these cars were kept on the road rather than sent in for maintenance. The only thing that kept these cars on the lot were issued recalls. And we know that happened because of a lawsuit involving a VW Beetle a little over a decade ago.

I steer clear from used rental cars, and giggle when I see a car that has a license plate holder saying “enterprise car sales”.

SteveLehto > DerpyDawg 04/14/2016 at 09:57

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Hard to say. It was built as part of a run of cars destined for a single buyer, most likely. I’d do a title search - just for curiosity.

SteveLehto > Burning River all stars 04/14/2016 at 09:58

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I did not know that. The lobbyists in OH must not be able to throw money as well as the lobbyists in MICH.

Wil Haginen > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 09:59

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Steve, near the end of your podcast you mentioned that if someone WANTS a salvage title or a wrecked vehicle, more power to them, but the important thing is that everything should be disclosed and up to the buyer to decide if that’s what he or she wants.

Some years ago over on fark.com, I got into a massive argument with someone. I don’t know if they were a clever troll or genuinely believed in what he was saying, but he claimed that rental companies are so good about maintaining and repairing vehicles compared to most private owners, that no one should have to disclose if the vehicle was a rental or not. My point was more along your lines: If you want to buy a rental, that’s fine, but everyone should have the RIGHT to know that it was a rental.

Because, again to your point, if rental vehicles are so great, then why are we making laws that allows sellers to obfuscate their origins? I’m glad for lawyers like you, but I’m sad that lawyers like you NEED to exist to protect consumers (no offense).

2 Wheels awesome! > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 09:59

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Several members of my family have purchased used rental cars on purpose...and ya know what... they work just fine and have had no major problems.... batting 1000 at 4 out of 4.

My X-type is too a real Jaguar > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 09:59

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Rental cars are like rental tuxes you get as much use as you can out of them then you shove them through the mail slot.

NovemberAjax > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:00

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Counterpoint: do your homework and you can get a decent car.

I was always of the same opinion - just walk away. I’ve abused many a rental car (too many miles flown, too many cars rented - I want to become part of the zero-miler club not the million-miler club).

Anyway - we picked up a used Toyota Yaris from Enterprise about 4 years ago. Test drove it - showed no problems. Brakes and tyres had been replaced, engine had fresh oil and air filters, oil was clean (a potential no-no as it could have been changed to cover something up), there were no leaks, the parking brake cable wasn’t seized, the wheel bearings were all in good condition and there were no major squeaks or rattles from the inside. There was paintwork damage on top of the rear bumper from people dragging suitcases in and out but we ended up covering that with a factory bumper protector. The price was dirt cheap and Enterprise included a 12 months bumper to bumper warranty - including the drivetrain - in the price. For a while I thought that might have been Doug Demuro territory but we ended up never using the warranty.

In short : total bargain.

End story: it’s not once let us down to this day and it continues to be a rock solid little car.

Declan Hackett > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:00

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I think you should talk to Tavarish for seed capital!

MikaelVroom > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:00

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A couple years ago my sister bought a Mazda6 with only one previous owner! Who was the owner? Enterprise.

Looking under the car, the front valance was destroyed from hitting curbs and general abuse.

I rent cars all the time for work and I’d never buy an ex-rental car. Because someone like me could have driven it.

elpaco13 > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:01

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I worked for Enterprise for 4 years (2.5 years as a manager) when I got out of college. 90% of people renting cars treated them just fine. Enterprise kept the top cars to sell under their marquis and then sold the rest to dealerships and auctions. The auction cars were the crappiest of the crappiest.

As far as maintenance goes; it was all tracked via mileage in the the system, so we couldn’t really cheat that since if we rented a car that required work it would be flagged essentially, and we had deals with local shops that could turn cars around in a few hours.

Anecdotally (which is not real evidence contrary to how many people present it here), my girlfriend actually has a Murano that used to be a rental; yes it’s 100% a base trim level, but it is pretty immaculate.

Mister_Moon > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:02

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I rent cars 25-30 times per year. I don’t treat them any differently than I do my own cars, e.g. I don’t drive like a maniac. Are most of you people such dickheads that you see a rental only as something to be abused and mistreated?

nerd_racing > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:02

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I had to sign a form saying that my car wasn’t a rental or canadian car at the time of purchase. This was in NY.

SteveLehto > NovemberAjax 04/14/2016 at 10:02

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Which is what I say in the podcast. That there is no problem buying one of these cars so long as you know what you are doing.

I am against people being ignorant or misled. Hence, the use of the word “Tricked” in the headline.

elpaco13 > Ryan Stewart 04/14/2016 at 10:03

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That kind of just makes you an a-hole for how you treated other peoples’ property. Did you treat hotel rooms like a coked-out 80s hair band as well?

SteveLehto > Mister_Moon 04/14/2016 at 10:04

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Yes, most people care less about something they don’t own - when compared to something they do own. I hope that does not shock you.

theCHEESE25 > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:04

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This is one reason why I want to buy new again. I know it’s expensive, but it’s worth it knowing that I will preform the proper maintenance and actually treat the car nice. I talk to people about their cars and the vast majority do not give any shits about cars. I have friends that don’t even know when their last oil change was but they’ll do it “when it feels like it’s time.” My wife didn’t even know cars had air filters until recently. It’s bonkers how most people treat their cars.

Also, I would argue that leased cars are long-term rentals and people will treat them similarly to rental cars.

BigBlock440 > ChrisinKY 04/14/2016 at 10:04

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And even 20k is short enough to stretch it to no oil changes, just the one before they sell it.

LOREM IPSUM > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:04

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Years ago, I sold cars at a Nissan/Jeep dealership which was part of the largest chain of dealers in the area. The owners of the dealership had their hands in just about every brand and after a particularly poor weekend of sales at the Jeep/Nissan branch, the management was all fired and the owners son stepped in to run things.

A short time later, while walking the lot, I noticed the small green “E” sticker affixed to the rear of an Altima parked amongst the used vehicles. The same green “E” sticker affixed to all Enterprise rental vehicles. I made a mental note of this.

At our next staff meeting, which was headed up by the owners son, I asked a simple question: “Do we sell former rental cars, and if so are we obligated to inform potential customers that the vehicle they’re purchasing was previously a rental vehicle?”

The owners son quickly replied stating very matter-of-factly that we did not sell former rental cars.

I immediately asked why then was there an Altima on the used lot with a green enterprise sticker, stuck under the left taillight, just like every vehicle Enterprise rents.

His response: “Somebody peel that sticker off of that car.”

Scumbags.

(I quit a short time later, during a subsequent staff meeting, in one of the most robust ways imaginable. Almost got the owners son upset enough to assault me in the process, which would have been awesome, litigiously speaking.)

elpaco13 > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:05

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Too late: there’s a rental chain called “ Rent-A-Wreck ”.

Xexyz > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:05

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I must be a rube, because I don’t beat the shit out of rental cars. Doesn’t anyone believe anymore that you ought to treat property you borrow with care and respect?

Wil Haginen > Mister_Moon 04/14/2016 at 10:06

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I’m with you, man. I don’t abuse anything that comes into my possession or operation. Hertz and Enterprise must love me, the cars usually end up being returned in cleaner condition than when I get them (I throw out the garbage that gets caught in the nook and crannies that the cleaners sometimes miss), and I don’t do crazy stunts.

That being said, I’ve definitely seen some people who become complete dickheads when they get behind something expensive that they can thrash around, “just because”. And while I don’t get that mentality, I’ve seen enough of it to know that I’d stay away from buying a rental.

99GTS > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:06

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Yeah we were not that worried about a Murano being hooned lol. A Hertz Mustang might be a different story lol.

SteveLehto > elpaco13 04/14/2016 at 10:07

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I know. My business plan is to go even lower with respect to the quality of the cars. You rent my rust bucket and park it next to your house for a few years. (They’re long-term rentals).

SteveLehto > Xexyz 04/14/2016 at 10:07

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You’re not borrowing it; you’re renting it.

emilminty drives an E30 but the '89 Cavalier blew a head gasket > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:07

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Any excuse to post this:

Even more important than being drunk, however, is having the right car. You have to get a car that handles really well. This is extremely important, and there’s a lot of debate on this subject – about what kind of car handles best. Some say a front-engined car; some say a rear-engined car. I say a rented car. Nothing handles better than a rented car. You can go faster, turn corners sharper, and put the transmission into reverse while going forward at a higher rate of speed in a rented car than in any other kind. You can also park without looking, and can use the trunk as an ice chest. Another thing about a rented car is that it’s an all-terrain vehicle. Mud, snow, water, woods – you can take a rented car anywhere. True, you can’t always get it back – but that’s not your problem, is it?

— PJ O’Rourke

elpaco13 > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:09

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You’re incorrect; most people treat the cars just fine (former Enterprise employee here). We played it as fast and loose with oil changes as most people do: a few extra miles here and there, otherwise there were repercussions for your branch not handling regular maintenance well.

99GTS > j250ex 04/14/2016 at 10:09

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The key is to buy a rental from a dealership not the actual rental company. We got a hell of a deal on the Nissan rental we bought.

SteveLehto > emilminty drives an E30 but the '89 Cavalier blew a head gasket 04/14/2016 at 10:09

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I love PJ. He wrote a very nice blurb for my Turbine Car book too!

R.S.D. > MotorcycleRider 04/14/2016 at 10:09

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Their only incentive is to keep the car functional enough for the next customer, and street legal*. That’s it. They have no need to perform long-term maintenance since that’s not their concern and it cuts into their profits. Combined with the potential for abuse from multiple drivers, there is a higher risk that a former rental will have maintenance issues for its new owner.

*Even the street legal part is suspect. I’ve turned down rentals on several occasions because the tags or inspection decals had expired. Always, always, ALWAYS, check all decals as part of your pre-inspection before you drive off the lot. My brother failed to do this once, he got pulled over three times in one week because his car was two months overdue.

CalzoneGolem > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:09

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I’m having a great day Steve.

SteveLehto > elpaco13 04/14/2016 at 10:10

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Ha ha ha.

Did you ride along with all those customers?

SteveLehto > CalzoneGolem 04/14/2016 at 10:10

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Thanks for checking in!

alan > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:12

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my last 3 cars were former rental cars. cant remember how it was listed, but on the carfax it was listed somehow. maybe as fleet, rental, or owner as hertz or something. but i guess you got to be smart enough to look for that. pretty much if you are looking for a car that is known to be used in fleets check for it.

Ol' Dirty Datsun > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:12

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Then again, a former co-worker of mine bought a 1988 Toyota Corolla in 1990 after it had served two years as a rental car. In Oakland, CA. At the height of the crack epidemic. He still drives it to this day, he’s never had to do more to it than brake pads and fluid changes to it.

I'm not sure if this is a statement to Toyota build quality, or if he's just really lucky.

Ryan Stewart > elpaco13 04/14/2016 at 10:12

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Why thank you, I strive to live up to that.

No, but shit happens. I spilled coffee on the carpets for sure though. No TVs in the pool. Just like how I didn’t wreck any of the cars, etc.

If you’re offended that I ran over potholes and floored it in a base Nissan then, well, I kind of pity you because you sound pretty pathetic.

llamaguy > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:14

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Bought a rental Focus. 45k miles later the only problem was a wheel bearing I should have had replaced ünder a specific extended warranty (didn’t get a notice that it was extended) and the clutch makes funny noises. All Ford problems and nothing to do with Hertz. But I saved $4,000 when buying it.

Just don't buy a rental Mustang GT or Mercedes.

xequar > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:14

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When we were buying Mr. X’s car last year (he wanted a newer Taurus), we went on way too long a drive to look at one that looked great online. It was the color he wanted, the trim package he wanted, mileage that seemed right on the money. Carfax was clean as could be. Price was a couple grand lower than what we’d been looking at, but it was out of the metro area and about a 90 minute drive to get to this place.

Got there, and the car looked great. Paint was nice, interior was very clean. Then we looked under the hood.

Something seemed off, and then I realized why. The paint under the hood (on the strut tower mounting areas, the underside of the hood, etc.) was black instead of body-colored. I immediately concluded the car had been smashed and repaired cheaply. Mr. X questioned me on it, pointed out that the Carfax was clean, bla bla blah. I reminded him that, say, a rental company could have taken the car to their own shop, done the repairs as cheap as could be, and put the car back out there without it ever showing on a Carfax.

We didn’t even test-drive the thing. Three hours of driving to look at a shitty ex-rental that had been smashed because it didn’t show on the Carfax that it was a fleet car or that it had been in an accident.

Dolemite > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:16

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We just bought a 2015 Nissan Rogue Select from a dealer that carriers exclusively (except for trade ins) rental cars and off-lease vehicles. They are a “no haggle” dealer, meaning they put one price on the vehicle, and that’s what you pay. Our Nissan was $16900, with 28K miles, which is about 1-3k below blue book. They had free Car Fax, so we could see it was a rental car. Besides a few scratches and dings, it seems fine. I was leery of buying a rental though, so I did get an extended warranty, even though I never buy extended warranties.

Wil Haginen > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:16

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You know, that’s a great point to consider. I wonder how quickly the market would change if all rental car companies said they would be tracking vehicle usage by use of black boxes and accelerometers, with fines attached for abusing the vehicle.

LightningZ71 > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:17

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Rentals are certainly something to be aware of, but not something to be afraid of, you just have to know some important facts:

1) If its got 44K miles or less on it, it probably came from a daily rental fleet. If its got more, it likely was a sublease from the rental company to a business. (Some businesses aren’t large enough to be able to deal directly with the manufacturer when they lease their company cars, so they go through daily rental agencies, such as Enterprise/National, who has an extensive service for that). Those vehicles are often in the three to four year old range and have closer to 60K miles on them. They are often in a non-standard rental configuration (higher trim level, uncommon options group, etc). The sublease vehicles largely have had to be well maintained as a part of their lease agreement.

2) Enterprise and National place small labels on the inside of the driver door opening near the tire placard indicating when services were performed. If you see too large of an interval, walk away, there are others there that probably aren’t missing any. You may pass up on a well maintained car that’s just missing a sticker, but, better safe than sorry.

3) Know the vehicle you’re looking at. In the South East, most minivans that are for sale at rental agencies have cycled through the Florida region doing theme park duty. They were almost absolutely driven reasonably while in the fleet. Check the brakes and parking brake on them. The parking brake may never have been used and may be frozen (I’ve come across two). Since they were heavily city driven, the brakes have seen some use, check the front pads and rotors for unusual wear. Often times, they may still have the OEM pads and may be in desperate need of a brake job. If you’re looking for an automotive appliance, make sure its one with a really good Consumer Reports reliability rating. While it may have been dogged in rental use, it’ll likely still be a reliable car if it hasn’t been trashed. Any manufacturing defects will have been found long ago.

4) Wait for the sales. Enterprise/National and Hertz/Avis run sales multiple times a year where they take a flat $1000 off of their used rental car prices. Do not buy unless you see that sale in force. There’s usually one mid-summer and another near year end.

CalzoneGolem > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:18

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Today’s lead picture is relevant to my interests.

jariten1781 > MotorcycleRider 04/14/2016 at 10:18

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I rent all the time (a few years ago I had 250 rental days for context) and yes, I’ve had them break down...much more often than anything I’ve owned with similarly low miles. Not only that, but the condition of many - while not to ‘break down’ levels - is just utter crap. I’ve had ones with blown struts, leaking axle seals, torn up wheel bearings, rough transmissions, misfires, bent wheels, misaligned doors/trunks, broken vent controls, etc. etc. all on cars that average around 10k miles on the odo when I pick them up.

That’s not to say it’s every rental (it’s not, most are alright) but it happens vastly more often than you’d expect on a privately owned vehicle with similar mileage.

jimz > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:19

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no it doesn’t. I treat other people’s cars as though they were my own (even if those “other people” are named “Penske” or “Enterprise.”) But yeah, whether it’s rental cars, hotel rooms, or whatever I never cease to be saddened by what utter f***ing pigs some people turn into when they don’t have to clean up after themselves.

DanimalHouse > NovemberAjax 04/14/2016 at 10:19

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Same thing. Bought a Mazda5 with 31k miles (just under 2-years old), service inspection passed with flying colors. Because who is going to thrash a “family sized van”? after about 10k miles, runs like a dream, and hope it will for years to come.

PotbellyJoe and 42 others > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:19

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I bought a rental. Got it for much lower than what i should have paid and got it factory certified. Does it bother me? Not really. I went over the thing with a fine toothed comb before buying it, so I was reasonably confident the fact that it was a rental (with around 18k on the odo) was actually saving me more $ than causing any headaches. Would I have been so thorough if it was a certified trade-in? No idea. Low mileage trade-ins scare me too.

Don’t like risk, buy new. Want to save some scratch in exchange for a little risk, buy CPO. etc.

yitznewton > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:27

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I got baited-and-switched into a rental minivan. 6 years and 28k miles later, no problems, thank goodness. There was a cigarette-lighter melt mark on the steering wheel left over though! I would have avoided it if I’d been aware.

Andrew Pickle > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:27

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My 2003 Expedition was purchased from CarMax when it was 2 years old. It was an ex rental, as are most of CarMax’s vehicles. Been driving it ever since. I’m up to 140k with only normal maintenance and the occasional ignition coil.

SteveLehto > PotbellyJoe and 42 others 04/14/2016 at 10:28

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But you knew that going in? My point is that there are people who do not know what they have bought until later (if at all).

Racewatcher > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:30

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I bought a 1.5 year old Jeep Liberty with 30,000 km on it from a rental company. It had new brakes, shocks and was inspected and cleaned. I drove it for 5 years with no problems. Just traded it at 107,000 km on a new vehicle. I’d have no problem buying a relatively low mileage rental in the future at all.

That Guy > MotorcycleRider 04/14/2016 at 10:32

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I think you are only partially right. Before the great recession, your major rental companies retired their rental cars after “x” amount of miles. Since 1999 I averaged one rental a week or more as I lived on an airplane. I rarely had a rental that had over 30k miles on it from Hertz or Avis. I can tell you first hand that as a car guy if I was renting local from home and not flying, I would actually check the oil. Usually low and based on the oil change sticker if present or the oil life monitor they were not changing the oil on the manufacturers recommended interval.

Into the recession I was actually getting into rentals that had 50K+ miles on them from Hertz. I even had one that was over 60k. So perhaps keeping them longer has them doing a better maintenance interval but I’m still very skeptical that they care much about scheduled maintenance. Given the oil change intervals that vehicles have today as well the other service intervals being pretty lengthy maybe it isn’t such a big deal today.

I still will never buy a rental vehicle. No. No way.

That Guy > ChrisinKY 04/14/2016 at 10:34

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Nope. They hold onto them far longer than 20k today. Before the great recession of 2009 it wasn’t uncommon for me to get a car with upwards of 30k on it. After? I’ve seen as high as 50-60k...and that is mostly with Hertz.

Derel1cte > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:34

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Everybody knows Rental cars are the fastest cars in the world.

PotbellyJoe and 42 others > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:34

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Yes I knew beforehand. I’m not a legal expert, and don’t know the law in NJ, so I don’t know what was required for them to disclose, but I knew (thanks to being in sales previously) that the car came from an auction based on the stock number (the dealer used the same system I did for 5 years). So even though they were forthcoming about it, and the Carfax report was handed to me in the showroom, before we went over the car, I had suspicions going in.

Andrew Pickle > Andrew Pickle 04/14/2016 at 10:34

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That being said, I wouldn’t expect people to thrash a big 7 passenger SUV the way they might a Corolla.

Fisheriesguy925 > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:45

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I helped a family member buy a car and they bought a rental because they wanted a good deal and they drive maybe 5000 miles a year. The car was certified and I took it to a mechanic friend to have it inspected. Maryland has some of the toughest used car inspections and my family member had to sign 3 documents acknowledging they knew the car was used as a rental. So far two years later and no problems.

gofry > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:46

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I actually seek out former rental cars when buying used. They are better maintained than by your average Joe and unless it’s a performance car, I don’t believe they are abused any more than any other car.

TIP: Check the CarFax and it will tell you that it was a fleet or rental car, or as Steve suggest, just ask.

hoffmanbike > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:49

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borrowing is just renting with a friendship on the line instead of cash

budgetrockshowcase > j250ex 04/14/2016 at 10:50

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Late model trucks are expensive no matter where you look.

SteveLehto > gofry 04/14/2016 at 10:51

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You’ve never actually rented a car before, have you?

Cheesus H Christ > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:51

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As a frequent renter at Detroit Metro Airport, I would strongly recommend not buying one of these used “program vehicles” in the state of Michigan because there’s a good chance I drove it.

SteveLehto > Cheesus H Christ 04/14/2016 at 10:52

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AND, those cars have to traverse the worst potholes in the world just to get on the freeway. Just thinking of the short trip from the Enterprise lot to 94 makes my kidneys wince.

southernscrew > Mister_Moon 04/14/2016 at 10:52

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Its like this. If I’m sitting at a light in my rented corolla trying to turn left and the guy in front of me refuses to move up the extra 3", because he has at least 2' in front of him, to let me get over and go on. Sure Ill take it up on the curb and go on about my business. Do I do it at a high rate of speed? NO. Do I try to come at the best angle possible to ensure no damage is done to the hub cap? YES. Do I also roll around town coming off every stop sign and light at no less then 1/2 throttle? YES. Do I run through every puddle of water I find? YES. Do I neutral drop it, which you cant really do in newer cars, and drive it like I'm in a demolition derby and bouncing it off every thing in sight? NO. Does this make me an abusive rental car renter? I don't think so.

Vashvashvashvashvash > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:53

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Something I always wondered. Car dealers often provide a carfax report to potential buyers. Is there any penalty for a car dealer forging or altering one? To anyones knowledge, does that happen?

SteveLehto > Vashvashvashvashvash 04/14/2016 at 10:55

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I have heard of - at least twice - buyers getting a carfax which was printed BEFORE something bad happened. They buy the car and later, when the oddity appears, they pull a carfax and the event is now there.

In both cases, it looked like the sellers had an earlier carfax rather than simply being the case where something hadn’t hit the report yet.

Steven Phillips Photography > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:55

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Also, never buy used red Mazdas anywhere near a Skip Barber location.

Ted the Mechanic > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:55

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My dad actually drove a Opel Vectra C for 5 years without ever knowing it used to be a rental and he never had any problems with it. I only found that out about a year after he sold it. So I guess he was very lucky.

WySS > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 10:56

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I think California may have a law that prior rentals be disclosed. At our dealership at least its stamped on the window sticker, is disclosed to the customer, and even the stock number of the vehicle contains an R at the end to indicate it was a rental.

Greg > gofry 04/14/2016 at 10:59

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You are probably right. I see the way people treat their cars and it is not any better than a rental car. Most people do not care about their car wether they pay for it themselves or rent it. I usually stay away from any used car unless it is dirt cheap, I know the previous owner or it is a special car.

SteveLehto > WySS 04/14/2016 at 10:59

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I’ve heard that a few states have the law. Of course Michigan would do it backwards. Again, the power of lobbyists.

D-Fizzle > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 11:03

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That MONROE billboard on I-75 has to be the best advertising placement of all time. Everyone going down that highway on a semi-regular basis is going to need new shocks...

Vashvashvashvashvash > SteveLehto 04/14/2016 at 11:06

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Right, that can, perhaps, be an honest mistake. But what about blatant forgery? It wouldn’t be technically difficult. Would it be illegal?